Hello everyone, I hope that you're doing okay. Again, it's been a weird week or so. Last week, I checked out Slapface, one of Shudder's Originals. It was something that struck quite the chord with me. I still have yet to see a film that has managed to click with me in such a way since. I decided to take a chance and reach out to Jeremiah Kipp, director of Slapface, to see if he'd be interested in chatting about it. He was more than happy too. I am so thrilled to present my interview with Jeremiah Kipp.
What was your introduction to the horror genre?
I grew up with my grandparents in the backwoods of Rhode Island, surrounded by the woods, not unlike the child protagonist in SLAPFACE. They were extremely lenient in what I was allowed to watch, so movies like THE THING, DAWN OF THE DEAD, THE TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE and PHANTASM were staples of my childhood. I didn't make any distinction between them and the creatures from Grimm's Fairy Tales, and was fascinated by the strangeness of those stories that felt so close to primal childhood fears.
How did you get where you're at with writing and directing?
Between the ages of 12 to 17, I gathered my friends together in the backyard to make genre films with a VHS Camcorder. When I submitted my application to NYU film school I cut together three minutes of the best material. Once accepted I shipped off to New York and over the years built my community of friends and teammates doing all sorts of movies, from short films written by Broadway playwrights to slasher in the woods flicks starring Tom Savini (who was great to work with).
Work begets work, and good work with good people leads to more good projects. None of my previous features until SLAPFACE were my own, they were work-for-hire jobs where I was essentially told, "Here's the script, bring it in on time and on budget." SLAPFACE was my first feature as a writer-director, but I'd never have gotten that job if I hadn't made a few other movies in that budget range with name talent.
How did the idea come together for Slapface? I know that it started as a short film.
It started as a feature-length script that we were trying to get made. Movies like HEREDITARY and THE BABADOOK hadn't come out yet, so there wasn't an appetite at the time for this sort of dysfunctional family drama with a monster in it. My director of photography Dominick Sivilli suggested we go make a five minute proof of concept, and I remember thinking at the time that even if we never got the feature made I will have expressed this story in a short format. That movie played festivals for three years and got a great reception. Joe Bemedetto and Mike Manning caught wind of it and asked to read the feature version, wanted to make it and off we ran. Eight months later we were on the set for day one of principal photography.
What was it like getting to expand the short into a film?
Working with Mike Manning was like having a total partner every step of the way. He made a radical suggestion that was a major change and made the project so much better. SLAPFACE was originally a father and son story, and Mike asked if we could change it to brothers, one of them several years older. Suddenly this deadbeat alcoholic dad was a young man thrust into a parenting role with responsibilities beyond his years, copying toxic behaviors he had learned from his dad. It made the character far more interesting, more conflicted. Mike is also an actor who was looking for a role to play that could break him out of playing the boy next door. He played Tom with such depth and nuance.
Is the entity in the film a creature or a witch?
She's called the Virago Witch in our story, yet I always thought of her as a seven foot tall monster. In the words of brilliant singer-songwriter, performance artist and filmmaker Lindsay Katt: "Always choose both!"
Is there more to the story of the Witch?
Maybe we will find out in SLAPFACE 2.
Is the Witch real?
Nobody on Sesame Street believed Big Bird who constantly exclaimed that Mr. Snuffleupagus was real. For more than 14 years, Big Bird was the only person who saw that giant mammoth. Do you think Snuffy was real?
For me, it felt like the Witch was an extension of Lucas? Therefore it wanted to protect him because it was his psyche trying to deal with everything going on. It was incredibly original. Where did the idea come from for it?
My favorite novel is Mary Shelley's FRANKENSTEIN and there is a profound middle section where the monster is circling a farmhouse imagining the lives of the people inside. I used this as a jumping off point and filled in the life of the family by incorporating stories from my grandfather’s childhood. He was chased home from school by three female bullies who threw rocks at him, and one was his secret girlfriend. His father would play the Slapface game with him. And it became interesting to counterpoint a fantastic creature against the real life horrors of child abuse. All sorts of questions would come up such as, "Who is the real monster here?"
Tom loves his brother. He wants to do right by him. However through the course of the film, it felt like he was being pulled under by a need to drink. Felt like it was his way of escaping. Though, it sounded like alcoholism runs through their family's history with their Dad. How old is Tom? Does he love his brother? If so, why have the 'game' of Slapface? Where did that come from?
Tom is old enough to be Lucas's caretaker after the death of their parents, so in his early 20s. Not much more than a boy himself. There are indications that Tom is trying to talk like his dad, parent like his dad, even the use of Slapface as a disciplinary measure feels like something passed down. Tom wants Lucas to know that when he's bad, it hurts other people, hence the slapping of each other. Slapface is also a way for them to cut through their deep trauma and feel something, even if it's pain. It's sadistic and masochistic in equal measure.
What is the story with Moriah? She seems to like Lucas. But whenever she's with her 'friends', she plays it off that she has to bully him. Does she actually like him? Does she bully him because her 'friends' bully her?
She loves Lucas but won't give up the social currency she has with her friends. If she felt like she could have both without being ostracized she'd let Lucas in more. It's almost as if they are having an affair. Mirabelle Lee, who played Moriah, completely understood that this character just wants to be loved and accepted and safe, and is trying to figure out how. As an actress Mira is a deep thoughtful person who didn't judge the character, but treated her with enormous sympathy. Moriah is trying to figure things out, just like the rest of us.
With Anna, she was a bit like the last bit of bright hope for Tom and Lucas. Tom seemed to like her. Though his issue with drinking tended to influence the way he interacted with her. Did she really care for them? Was she really a wiccan? Could she have helped?
Anna certainly latched on to this family and made herself at home. She seems to be drifting around finding her way, probably with a trust fund. She mentions her time backpacking in Thailand. Tom and Anna are up for the adventure, but Anna gets more than she bargained for. The fact that she's a wiccan strikes me as her being very open minded to new ideas, though she also sees the violence in this household as a total lack of imagination. Anna in some ways is an audience surrogate, and if anyone is in a position to help Tom and Lucas, it's her.
Is the Witch preying on Lucas because it knows that he ultimately doesn't have anyone to protect him? Did he summon the entity?
We see him outside Wakefield House doing a ritual, cutting his hand and bleeding on a photograph of his mother. Whether or not audiences believe the Virago Witch is real, she is certainly a manifestation of his deep desires. She will do anything to protect him.
How was the shoot for the film? What was it like getting to work with all of the actors and actresses?
This was one of the best experiences I've ever had making a movie, since I had supportive produces who set me up to tell the story I wanted to tell. We had a crew of people I've worked with for years and a cast where every role was filled by someone I admired and wanted to work with. I credit producer Mike Manning for being there every step of the way, from fine tuning the script to shooting to having the strongest most creative post production team all the way to festivals and distribution. I have enjoyed and been present for every part of this journey, including this interview.
Was there anything that you didn't include in the film but wish you did?
There's a sequence where Lucas is walking down a hallway that was intended to be one long continuous shot. My team of producers who were otherwise amazing in every possible way demanded in no uncertain terms that I cut it up into smaller pieces. Nobody in the audience thinks of that scene as compromised; it remains scary and emotionally charged and drives us into the final act of the story. If I had final cut, I'd probably keep that as one shot. However, we are literally talking about less than one minute of screen time here. I still love the scene and the sequence. If we had more time I'd probably get more shots in the scene where Lucas is chased by a dog...make it a larger sequence with more suspense.
What happens next? The film ends with such a strong bold ending. It was something that I didn't see coming. I felt like the entity was prepared to take Lucas or that Lucas would have sacrificed himself.
I would love to answer those questions in a sequel. Maybe there is more to be told with Lucas and the Virago Witch, where we can learn more about his fate and where she came from.
Could this film be seen as a cautionary tale in one instance? I mentioned that it's something that has many layers to it. And with each viewing, there's a chance that one could uncover more layers. Like I saw it as a cautionary tale, a family story, a love story, a story about bullying, a story dealing with loss, a story dealing with identity as well?
We fully intended for this to be a densely written story with many layers. At 85 minutes it is taut and compressed in the storytelling, which I think opens up space for the viewer to explore. I recently loved watching Rose Glass's masterful film SAINT MAUD, which runs a lean 84 minutes and is packed with ideas. Something about the compact nature of her film allows me to imagine what's happening between the scenes while also never feeling lost, or wondering if she knew where she was going.
Was the film designed with rewatches in mind?
When people tell me they have rewatched the film, I'm very happy. We tried to create a story that would reward multiple viewings. I love that sort of movie as a spectator, always getting something new out of DON'T LOOK NOW or John Carpenter's deeply subversive THEY LIVE or CANDYMAN 1992 -- or CANDYMAN 2021 for that matter!
Were things left ambiguous to let the audience decide how things play out? It allows each viewer to develop a relationship with the film. That's pretty fantastic as one person could interpret things one way than another would.
I'm excited to hear those responses because when you finish a movie as a director it no longer belongs to you. It now belongs to them.
What has it been like seeing people react to your film?
Hearing the powerful response to SLAPFACE has been deeply meaningful to me. I'm moved, grateful, humbled and thankful. Also I'm thankful to Shudder who released the film with such care. They show so many different kinds of great movies, from the darkly funny "portrait of a marriage" vampire film JAKOB'S WIFE to the wild demonic carnage of TERRIFIED out of Argentina to the feminist slasher movie LUCKY. I'm honored to be in this company. And definitely watch HELLBENDER, the folk horror film by The Adams Family. It is a truly breathtaking piece of work, so personal and so scary.
What is next for you?
I'm directing another very different kind of monster movie down in Savannah, Georgia with roots in Southern folklore. And making the festival rounds is a short film with ghosts in it called DRAW UP AND STARE starring Michael O'Keefe, Linda Powell and Melissa Leo. As you can see, I love to work and remain extremely happy to be working within a medium I love with creative people.
Thank you again, Jeremiah for taking the time to chat. I am hoping that we will get to see a sequel that explores what happens next. If you'd like to, you can find Jeremiah over on Twitter and Instagram.
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